Running a Therapy Business.

Ep 9- Bethan O'Riordan 'Reality of running a therapy business'

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Tell us who you are for the people who have no clue.

So I'm Bethan. I'm a mom of three. And I'm a psychotherapist, but it was the mom of three that's taken me on the wildest ride, I think of figuring out the person and parent I want to be instead. I never then I never know, should I go into my work that I do with clients? Or should I not? Or I never know, what do people really want to know? Because I don't mind. I'm an open book. Ask me any questions.

That's why I love you. I love how you just kind of casually drop in psychotherapists like I don't know, anyone who's as qualified as you.

I'm really dedicated to being a therapist, because it's one of those things that because I work for myself, and I work by myself, you get to interpret it how you want, but I know that for me, to be a good psychotherapist, I have to keep moving in my personal development as well. So I go to my own therapy, and I go, either once a week, or once every two weeks, just so I have that space to get all my shit out tonight and bore my friends to tears with it, so I don't spill into my children's lives. And I also keep on top of training. But I think more so I just really, really try and have a really balanced life. However, that looks, you know, so if it means taking breaks from social media, taking breaks from my emails, I guess I might not be by the book in a business sense. But I try to be really by the book in a personal sense. And I have got oodles of training and experience. I mean, I started off working in Leeds in an exchange clinic. And like, a youth centre for girls. And then we won this night, and we came second and a national competition. And we went to Downing Street. And it was amazing. And that was like my first ever professional thing I've done. And then I moved over to Ireland, and I got more into the suicide prevention work, working with people with self harm homeless services, and now I work for myself. So I do have this really broad depth of experience. And I'm not afraid to sit with people in their pain. You know, and in fact, sometimes the crisis work meeting the 13 year olds who are suicidal, that in some ways, some way a little bit easier for me than than working with people with just the day to day stuff because the crisis stuff in in some way they're coming because they want to be okay. And that's sort of a bit easier than just like, well, actually, my whole life is really shit and I hate myself. You know, it's kind of like the crisis stuff. You're like, Oh, fine, you know, so that's me. That's my experience.

So some of the things that you mentioned that I think we should cover off are the fact that you're a therapist that goes to therapy. I think that's so important and the discussion point. Also, the being actually qualified in an online space where there are perhaps some people who aren't as qualified to give advice as you are more so that you take social media brakes. Also, the parenting bit, you kind of just sort of half said that I don't fall into the slip into my children's lives what I'm doing in my work life.

So let's start with the parenting thing. Because that's what you're, I guess you've got this because you cuz I know you've got this kind of offline work, which is more with young people, right? And like, well, that's

I know it's really, this is where it's really hard for me to capture on Instagram. Yeah the work I do, because I'll never say no to somebody. I mean, if I'm not, you see, I have to sort of really be. I have to really think about who I'm working with. I mean, I can't work with you know, there has to be like a percentage of people in crisis, and then a percentage of people who are not so much, otherwise, it's too much. It will sting. Right? But you know what people say this, and I don't know, I mean, I've got burned out twice. There's me being really honest, I got burned out twice, from like a while ago, but probably working and partying really hard.

I used to do shift work, so in in a house for people who had just left treatment centre, so instead of them going back into their community, the idea was that you come to this safe place you, you learn to live in society as someone in recovery where maybe you've had your whole life, just living in addiction in society, so say living in a different world. But that was shift work. And it was night work. So I might have like five days off in a row and Sharky for those five days. I gave them a good go. And,

and then also, I think I was just learning how to look after myself and listening to people's stories, so that was 15 years ago. So I've had a good lash time to get used to managing all of that stuff. And the thing is, I'm in supervision, I go to my supervisor, and she's great. And she's really honest. And she's like, well, you know, you need to look after yourself, or you need to work on that in therapy. And because she knows me, like there's no bullshit, I wouldn't bullshit her anyway. But just in case a part of me thought about bullshitting her, because I didn't want her to see the truth was kind of unconsciously, about if I was struggling, then she would see it and she'd say, get your hours into therapy, you know? You probably need to work on that a bit. And so I find the work really energising but because I have a balance to it. I think that's the important thing. I managed my diary quite well, in terms of I work one evening a week, and then the next day, I'm totally off, so don't have to get up. I'd have to get up the next day.

Like my parenting journey. All the work, I do offline stuff, which I got wrong, but you do cover off everybody, but then the online stuff is focus more on the cat and welcome parenting cup, isn't it?

So creating an online community for parents who need a safe space to talk about the reality of parenting, you know, the reality of those dark days when you're wondering, like, like, and really seriously, like, What the hell have I done? You know, really what the hell are, you know, oh, shit, you know, those moments? And so what I do is I try and make it like, I mean, I don't have all the answers. If anyone needs my husband, I know the answers to everything, obviously. But my work is with children over 13, I have worked with children who are 11. But you see, under the age of 13, a child's Greatest Therapist is their parent, you see. So my work, I believe, is with the parents to give them the skills to help their children. Because as the children grow up, I mean, they're welcome to come back to me as much as they need, but it's much more helpful if their family can hold them instead. So in the camp parenting club, it's an online space for parents, and I bring in the professionals. So there's a play therapist who's come in a few times now, I've a child and adolescent psychotherapist, who's coming in in December. And I just keep going and I keep tuning into what is what the discussion has been that week. And what do I think people need? And then I'll ask the community and they'll say yes or no, and I'll find the person to fit.

Why did you start that arm? Is that because you saw?

I mean, you must have seen so many people and kids and adults in crisis, and that doesn't all come down to the fact that as parents, we're guaranteed to mess up in some way. I don't mean like I honestly want to get that on a t shirt. You're guaranteed to fuck up your kids. But you have this amazing opportunity to reduce how much right because you see I think the thing is like when I first became a mom, man, I was fucking raging that no one's hauled me what it was. There's lots of talk about how hard it is. And there's loads of talk around, like my nipples are hanging off from breastfeeding. And I can't breastfeed, or my birth was awful. And I kind of thought, Okay, well, you know, talking about it is really helpful. But there needs to be therapeutic support for parents as well. And then you see, the other thing is, when you become a parent, your body starts to release your early attachment memories of being young. So like, not only are you supposed to look after a child, but your body is remembering what it was like for you to be a child. And that's really difficult. So, you know, for some people say, their early attachment to their parents might not have been how, you know, like the five gold star, and they're remembering those feelings of being alone and abandoned and isolated. And when I say this, you know, people often say, but I was okay, I was fed, I was looked after I was, and I say, yeah, that, then that's great.

But most people have an emotional wound from their parents. And this isn't a finger pointing or blaming. I mean, in some people, when there's more severe cases, then, you know, part of their healing, is being angry and finger pointing, because that's part of the healing process. But we have to know that we're going to, we're setting up the foundations of someone else's mental health. And me, as a psychotherapist, who's been doing this for over 15 years, I need help with it. But if I need help with it, everyone does. And that's not to say that, like, you know, it's my job to keep on top of my shit. That is my number one job. And the other thing is, is that there's a great book called the body that holds the score. I talk about it all the time. And I'm not affiliated to the person at all. But I think everyone should read it or listen to a podcast where it's being discussed or something because it's about you see, as your children age, your body releases memories of being that age. So like, if you were eight and you were bullied in school, well buying when your child becomes eight, your body releases those memories as well.

Yeah I think a classic example is like when your four year old child doesn't say thank you for a Christmas present, right? And you're totally triggered because you're feeling all like, oh my god, that person's gonna, I'm a terrible mom, my child has no mannerism and all the magic that goes through your head, and then you get into this kind of like headlock situation, Maybe physically, but just emotionally with your child where you're like, say, sorry, and yeah, bah, bah, bah, bah. Like, you're acting out how you retreated at that age. And most people don't want to do that. Most people don't want their moms to fall out their mouths or their dad to fall out their mouths. And so that's why I set it up. And because parents totally freak out. And again, it parents totally freak out when something happens to their kids, or when their kids aren't okay. And I'm like, Harada, this is an amazing opportunity to deepen the relationship with your child, and to make what's difficult, safe.

And all parents go down this crazy route of problem solving. They go, Oh, my God, I'm gonna make this easier. And but actually, all we have to do is sit with the child and just say cuts really, that's really rotten. And sometimes we say, and sometimes we don't, because the child would be like, how do you know? You don't understand me, man. And that's okay, as well. But it's just, you know, I always say to parents, we don't need to punish children, or discipline them to help them understand life. And parents say, Well, we do. And so what, you know what, when people come to me in the therapy room, they change, because I practice giving them on ended kindness. And I add, when I don't understand I say, I don't understand. Tell me more about that. And these are the kinds of things that parents can do. And then when they get all flustered inside, they can come to the camp parenting club, and we're like, Oh, my God, what do I say next? And I say, Well, now you say this, and they say, Okay, bye. Yeah. And so it's, I think it's really powerful, because no one can support anyone without being supported themselves. You know, phenomenal Bethan. Every time I talk, record that and get my kids and husband and puppy to agree, then tell me what phenomenal guys Roll up, roll up. And I guess through my own life experiences, I don't really care what other people think of me, not in the way that I don't think I'm an asshole.

I just know that everyone's giving it a shot. Yeah, whatever way that look, life can be really hard. And a lot of what we find hard in life, most of what we find time in life isn't our fault. We're born into a family we didn't choose. We have a set of genes that we didn't choose. We have a set of unconscious biases that we didn't choose. And that's really hard. But the great thing is that we can take responsibility for it and change what we find hard. And that's it and database excitation of a crime you must have so your whole life, you've kind of been working on this.

And then you decide, Do you know what, I'll go online. And I'll tell people, I'll make a club and a community for people to be able to support this. But you must get so frustrated. Because the work you're doing is so important. And you must get so frustrated because you want to change the whole world. But then trying to be online, is quite obviously, it's very, like competitive. And you're up against pictures of influence of parents with beautiful autumn. So beautiful, like pumpkins and nice. Kids in willy nilly. Children dressed as pumpkins. Children in a pumpkin. So do you ever get frustrated? I don't know, how do you manage that balance of you and your brain, and your years of experience and all of your training and everything, and then trying to bring this message online to help as many people and their generation, subsequent generations as much as possible? And then you come up against it?

I would be how does that, but everyone's just doing their thing, aren't they? Oh, you're so good that and it's like, who am I to? And then I see the Instagram of people. And I think I need to move more. Thanks for the inspiration. Yeah, all right. I think your skin is amazing. I need to do more skin based, I'd like to do more skin based stuff. Because I guess like I do feel that like I'm

On my journey of personal development, that sounds awful, wonky. But I know that I've like over 15 years of therapy, to figure out who I am and what I'm about. And I don't mind if people don't do that if they do their life in a different way. Because everyone's life is important to them. And I can't I mean, it's only worked for, you know, sometimes you just fall into things in life, like I moved to Ireland dry move to Ireland to go out with a guy and then we broke up. And then I was like, fuck it, what am I going to do here? And then I went for a job interview. And they said to me, how would you feel about a full time position? And I said, Well, I thought it was a full time position.

So like it was only but for the jobs I was in and the people I met that I got to learn from them anyway, it wasn't like I was born with divine sight see your ship?

You know, I mean, I think one thing about social media as well is that there's inspiration for everybody, then whatever you do, if you want to dress your baby like a pumpkin and you find someone who inspires you were brilliant. If it makes you feel good. I think one thing I find tricky. First of all, the building that I work in, I think there's seven psychotherapists who work there are eight. So I'm in a real place of abundance. Yeah. And I really think like, well, people will find me who need me, so I don't feel the need to like, not sell myself, but I just hope I'm helpful and informative. Because I remember when I saw I didn't have Instagram till I met you, Inge. I didn't even have social media until like, five years ago, because I just didn't get it, couldn't get my head around it. And then when I joined, I did get really sucked into some people's marketing messages. And it made me think God, I'm so vulnerable to sort of people selling me things. And again, this is me who I felt like I thought I wasn't, but hey, I'm human, too. That sort of plays on my mind is too strong. But I'm always aware of that.

And I do think I mean, there's so many people who share so much stuff online. I mean, the reality is, people don't know a lot about me. And I like that, because I don't need to know a lot about me. I mean, if you want to meet me for a cup of tea, I'll tell you what you want to know. But I'm always aware in the therapy room as well, like I hold people's stories confidential. Other people don't have to do that with my stories. And I see a lot of people oversharing you know, shit oversharing stuff. I don't know if it's to sell or to, because they need help, or they don't know where to go with it. And I think that sometimes it's really sad to see. Yeah, in this kind of, like, be visible. I think a lot of it is kind of visible, but find your groove. Don't be vulnerable. Yes, you know, and then I would have a lot of people contacting me. I mean, a lot is maybe too much just feels like a lot DMing me about my message about parenting, you know about well, I can't believe you don't want to punish children. How would they know?

But my plan for 2023 is to do more. And someone put a comment on it who wasn't even a parent about like, well, I think it's nice manners. When I said, it's nice manners to apologize. I said, Yeah, but I think

You've missed the whole point of my argument because because my whole point is, is that if we get children to apologize for things that essentially aren't their fault, because they're because their brains are massively underdeveloped, and they don't have impulse control, and they don't have life experience, and they do and say things they don't mean, as do I, but I don't have an adult following me around to give out to me that then if we get children to apologise, we can accidentally bring shame into their experience. And you see, we don't want to shame people, because shame is the basis for suicide and self harm, in my opinion, like being angry isn't an issue. It's how bad you feel about being angry. being anxious isn't necessarily problematic. And this is really generalised. But it's how, how shit you feel about yourself that you are anxious, that's the problem. And parents have this amazing opportunity just to just let a kid fuck people out of it.

I mean, like, we've got like holes in the wall from remote controls being thrown at the wall.

But in the back of my head, and all we have to do is just no cutter really angry. I wonder how I can help them. And so I think people do get triggered by my messaging, because it's new, and it's different to how we were parented. That's okay. Because I always say to parents, if you're watching something of mine, or reading something, or listening, and you think, God, I need to tell that Beth in something that is your golden nugget, that is your thing to work on. And then I say You're welcome. That's it, so if you're triggered by something super, turn the lens around and figure out what that's about, because you'll only grow and develop from it. In a nutshell, that's my beef with social media. I mean, I've taken away loads from that just from knowing that someone's gonna come at me, let's say, or like a troll, like, the trolls or whatever, that they're actually the one that's triggered. And that's something that they need to work on, rather than, like, I know, granting specific but genuine with anything. Because anytime we're triggered, it's like, oh, that's another part of me that doesn't like that about the world. And I always think I can remember it was my supervisor, or another therapist who said to me, we should be paid the most when we reject people. Because that's the biggest learning, like, I would have people come to me and for whatever reason, they are consistently late and paying consistently late for appointments consistently.

And it's because in a therapeutic relationship, replaying out something, so my work is to get people on board, even in the camp parenting club, you know, people say, I can't make the lives and I say, well, that's okay. But there's one during the day, and there's one in the evening. So every week, I alternated, we have to look at, well, can we really not do something? Or is it that there's a block there? Yeah, you know, and, and I think well, and that's okay. And the times that I have to say no to people and say, you know, and be really honest and say, I don't work in this way, or this relationship doesn't work for me like this. And it kind of takes a lot of balls. It took me years to be able to actually really genuinely say that to clients, and say, Look, this isn't working for me, I'm not the right therapist for you. And people get really rejected. People get, Oh, my God, you know, and I say, Well, I think in therapy as well. And maybe this isn't important to the podcast at all. But you know, like, how the therapist experiences the client is how they're experienced. And it's the same online, how you experience somebody is how other people experience them, too. Yeah. And it's a really big gift if we can turn and say to people, well, you felt like you were pushy, then or, when you were trolling. This makes the President feel great.

But I know it's because you're upset, or you're angry, or your values have been tested. And that's really, I mean, nobody likes that, you know, we're all clinging on to life by our fingernails, it's sometimes and then when someone says something to upset that. Or maybe in the online space with your work, maybe people get jealous, or they want to be you or they want you know, they want your success or you're

sure, that's all right.

If you can't get it, then join the agency and she'll show you how.

But that's the reality, isn't it? Yeah. Do you notice a lot in people? Obviously, you're not kind of going to therapy wise people on the street or the shop? You must know and notice a lot of things that people don't know and notice about themselves.

Only when I'm being paid to you. I know, a restaurant like work in restaurants and I'd sit and be like, oh that waiters crap they should have done this to that didn't it? Well, yeah, I do do that because I was a waitress for years. And even like in the building we work right. Did you ever see Did you ever I mean, I think this is like a worldwide thing. You know, the toilet roll that they put inside the hand dispensers for there, to get the tissue out to dry your hands, you know?

The big one just sits on the wall. Well, you know, you've to take the cardboard out the door so you to take the cardboard out the inside of the people who don't know that in the building I work. So I'm like, well, fucking hell, like have to do a video about this now.

But I think I mean, here's the thing, what I really try and really try and do in my life and the thing I'm trying to teach my kids as well or not teach them just demonstrates them is the like, we're all human. So it means that we're all really vulnerable to struggling, we're really vulnerable to doing and saying the wrong thing. I never therapy as people because they're not asking for it. And not that I don't care. But I just look after me, and not in a selfish way. But if I see something or I see someone or I see I think God, they're having a shit all the time. Hope it gets better for them soon. It's too much energy to do anything else isn't a domino? I have three kids love their time.

You're so good at having those boundaries, I think. Is it fair to say that it's like you need to otherwise, because of the work that you do? If you didn't, for example, like you said to me earlier, okay, I was going to do some podcasts today. But actually, I'd like to just kind of my dog and drink a cup of tea. Don't make those positive choices for your own well being.

You could crumble. Is that fair? Yes. Yeah, I think so. And you know, I have done it twice, I got burnout, not in the psychotherapist who was homeless work. Also just probably partying too hard for being honest and being young. And having too much money, or what felt like too much money, you know? Yeah, but I mean, the thing is, there's a great podcast, it's called something like threading the needle pattern. I always get it wrong. And there's a therapist on that called Nedra. I can't remember dyslexia, I never remember names. I'm always like, oh, there's this great thing out there, you should all find it. But it's, but it's a really great podcast about boundaries. And she says, she's like, I hate the word boundaries. It's just learning the edges of life. And it's letting other people know how I want to be treated, and use the I want to be treated.

And I want other people to know that these are my edges, you know, so I'm going to remember what I remember a few years ago, before COVID, a friend was having a leaving party and it got to 11. And I said, I'm gonna go home now I'm a bit tired. And she said, but it's my leaving party. And I said, Yes, I wish you all the best. And she said, If I can't believe you're going to not feel you need to stay. I was like, no, no, not really. Because I know what I have to do to keep me well. Yeah. And that's why I'm not prepared to forego that. We'll give us some examples like, your boundaries that you your edges, have you just work well learn, you learn faster, and you learn.

And the other thing is, I mean, that they're flexible, right? It depends on how life is. So every six weeks or seven weeks, I take a break from client work for a week and a break off social media. And this time, I'm taking two weeks off, because I just feel I really need it. Yeah, I just really feel like this time last year, I got COVID. And I was really, really sick. Like I was in bed for maybe seven or eight days. And I and now I'm a year on and I'm like I could see how that could happen.

This is a really tiring time of year for me. So I'm like, Okay, I need to learn. I guess it's like a work context. You know, like all the planning stuff you've taught us to do. So I have all my breaks scheduled till next summer. And like, they may move, they may shift. But the other thing is, I take breaks when the kids are in school. Because it's like, when is a break? Not a break? Well, when I've got three kids here, you know, and so I know for me that I can really, I mean, I just lie around watching telly. And it's amazing. I get like really spooked by stuff. So I have to watch like gangs of London at 10am to offset the adrenaline by the time I go to bed at 10pm or like Peaky Blinders or something that's really like, oh, you know. And the other thing is, I'm cautious, not cautious of the wrong word of what I put my time into, and who my friends are and how I spend my time with my friends. Because ultimately, I really want to be the mom that my children need. So if I work backwards from there, there's lots that has to happen. I need to go to I need to have enough sleep. I need to make sure I'm eating the right foods. I need to make sure I'm being with people who cheer me on. And this is a massive thing that actually takes great skill to do because we find ourselves in relationships that don't really serve us. I try every Sunday I take a digital detox and it's amazing. I'm like I have so much more time when I'm not online.

Put in perspective, how much am I online.

I felt smug because other people were talking about theirs. And then I got a new phone. And this information just came up and winked at me. Like it was hypnotising. Me, I was like, where did you come from? So just put it away again and went. But at the same time, I think it's okay to be Bingi. I think it's okay to want to sit and scroll. I think it's okay, as long as you're not avoiding anything. Because often we do things in life, so we don't have to do the other thing. Yeah, you know, and I think especially with social media, it's a really good distraction from ourselves. And it's a really good distraction from stopping and sitting. Yeah, I got a bit of knitting to start knitting, but I couldn't get my head around it. So then I just went back to cross stitch. So I've like this cross stitch book that I've never picked up, but I will one day, and then I've got my Christmas cross stitch that I've been doing for years. But I find it really relaxing. And it's not about completing it. It's just about doing it. Yeah, you know, stick on a podcast, start cross stitching, and then I've totally daydream, I forget what I'm doing and then have to go to bed. And I've done four lines.

And then I forget, I've got it on my own. So while I was doing that, like my boundaries are my edges. See, I don't even know my own language. I think a huge part of my edge are only telling people what I want them to know about.

And that's not being like Uber secretive or cloak and dagger, but it's just respecting myself respecting my children expecting their stories. I mean, even sometimes in the camp parenting club, like, you know, when I get the child specialists in, parents can submit a question if they can't make it live. And it's all recorded. And sometimes I just edit the bits out where parents are speaking about their children, because I say to know what your kids because it's recorded and saved in our app, so people can watch it back whenever they want to as well. Your kids actually haven't given permission for this to be shared, they've given you permission to talk about them because you're their parent and get support. I don't know about saving that though. And letting other people who don't know you or your child watch it, you know, that kind of way. Yeah. So I think that's my edges. But the really good fun thing, and this is what I love about life is that I'm always learning my edges. I'll do something one day, and I'd be no poor if that wasn't the right thing to do all that sent me into a total spin. You know, and there's hope I just won't do that tomorrow. Kind of like learning to go easy on ourselves when we fuck up. Yeah, you know, because it's like someone said to me once in parenting, it's all trial and error. And at the beginning, I thought, Well, what a fucking shit show that is, you know, why doesn't it? Why can't it just be trialled and it worked? But I guess life isn't like that is it? You know, it's about learning from the errors.

Everything that spills out of your mouth, I know that you have your own podcast is coming out with certainly your mother spill out your mouth. Sure your mother didn't say all these months, because everything that you're saying is absolute gold. Oh, well, you know what, that's the other thing I realised that I could easily spend a lot of time filling my mind with shit. And I probably do. I mean, I love just bombing out and watching. Like, I won't say the name of the programme. But I was watching telly this morning. And my husband said but isn't this mind nominee and I said, if I can love it. Like I totally love it.

I heard someone speaking of the day thing, the only thing they find difficult about Netflix is that they spend forever like scrolling around finding something and then it's like an hour and a half and they're like, fuck it. I'll go to bed. But I have a list of things I really like. So I know Oh, my new hair programme is out. I'll watch that. My favourite podcast is out. Oh, watch that. To make sure that I'm feeding my senses and my mind in a way that's helpful to me. And that means the therapy bits means the mind numbing bits. It means my favourite, I mean glow up is amazing. I love that makeup programme and the big blowout. I kept forgetting what my husband was like, oh, big blowout and I would say why Where are you going? Like no your programmes on telly?

Oh, great, super amazing. So I think if you just think it's about nurturing your mind and then I have like a cell phones kind of here by me. I have a self care box as well. So that when I'm sitting if I'm like, What do I do? Because so much of my time is taken up with me and my clients can join the parenting club being a mom. When it stops. I'm like,hello, what do I do for me? So I have a little box a bit. It's got my books, my magazines, got some agency stuff in it. It's got your room. I don't know what's this card? I mean, I should probably know the orange book. Here it is.

So if I'm in like a working mood or whatever it is, it's all there and then I've got like my favourites. But this is like one of my favourite books about motherhood. It's called motherhood facing and fine

Being yourself. And it's like a young human approach to motherhood. And so it's amazing. It's like real therapy. It's like the lady is a therapist, and she would say, a fairy tale. And then there's questions for you to just mull over at the end. And it's amazing. I think if you just nurture your mind, and then the days that I don't really know what I'm doing, like I've it's there, underlined in red, I graffitied my own book, oh, look, I've underlined here. It's the darkness that gives rise to the transformation.

There we go. And it says here, but there's no doubt that transformation is often painful, lonely and frightening. But we can develop pathological wealth as we grow into the person we want to be. So like, if I've got three minutes in my day, and I'm like, What do I do? What do I do? And I pick up my book and I've underlined in red, the things I really want to know about, I'm like, great. I've noted that part of me now I can watch the big blowout.

I think it's about making life available for you, what you want to what you want to nurture yourself. And yeah, it's possible, even if you've got 20 seconds.

So thank you. I'll see you soon.

To find Bethan's website on psychotherapy and parenting support click here, Bethan O'riordan and for any questions or further information head over to my instagram, IngeHunter.

Inge x